That May-December Thing
Sure, everyone seems to be doing it these days. All the movie stars. Politicians. Sports figures. But the question remains: how much does age difference really matter in a relationship? Moreover, when does the May-December romance cross into the “creepy zone”?
People will tell you there is no black-and-white answer to this question. They would be wrong.
Check this grid to get a definitive answer. Look up his and her age on the grid to find out whether the relationship falls into the Bill Wyman or Demi Moore zone.
Frequently Asked Questions
How do you calculate what is creepy and what isn’t?
The formula is pretty simple. For the older man scenario the calculation is:
(His age divided by 2, add 7)
If this number is greater than her age, it’s creepy.
For the older woman scenario the calculation is:
(Her age multiplied by 0.75, add 3)
If this number is greater than his age, it’s creepy.
How come the formula varies between the sexes?
Older men have been dating younger women for ages. This fact biases our definition of what is non-conventional. For example, Susan Sarandon hooks up with Tim Robbins and it’s all the buzz in Hollywood. Meanwhile, Jack Nicholson shows up at the Oscars with a Girl Guide and it doesn’t even get to page three in Variety.
I’m involved with a younger woman, and according to your chart I’m in the Bill Wyman zone. Is there hope for me?
It depends on how deep in the zone you are and how long you two will be together. It is possible to stay with the same person and eventually get out of the creepy zone since the age difference in the non-creepy envelope gets wider with age.
For example, lets say you are 30 and she’s 20. Obviously, this is in the creepy zone. But if you stay together for ten years, you’ll be 40 and she’ll be 30. Bingo. You are no longer involved in something considered creepy.
As for poor Bill Wyman, he was 53 when he hooked up with that 19 year-old. From my calculations, this wouldn’t get out of the creepy zone until he turned 82. By that point, the creepiness goes to the core and is irreversible by my take. Probably explains why he eventually found an older woman (this time only 24 years his junior!) to finally settle down with. But lets face it: Wyman still gives us the willies (pardon the pun) when it comes to his courtships.
I’m involved with an older woman and checked your grid to find out that it’s not creepy. How come it still feels creepy?
While the absolute age difference is the biggest predictor of creepiness there may be other factors. For instance, should the older woman have a daughter, if the following formula holds true, it’s creepy:
[(Your age - daughters age - 7) < (Mom's age - Daughters age) divided by 2]
Height may also play into the formula. For men under 40, in the older man/younger woman scenario you can respectively add or subtract one year to the woman’s age for every two inches of height she is taller or shorter than you.
How come your grid cuts off at age 60?
Not that I want to be labelled “ageist” but let’s face it – as the numbers get higher, creepiness takes on a whole new definition than purely the age difference between partners. I don’t want to even begin to think about whether my mother is dating within the confines of this formula.
posted by The Chair @ Tuesday, August 02, 2005
8 comments
8 Comments:
Interesting post, Chair, and further development, Siren. Apparently the 'Creepy Calculation' may be affected by a whole bunch of confounding factors. As I read it, as you introduce more factors, the calculation becomes more arcane or more irrelevant (or both).
I think this suggests something that a lot of researchers have faced in recent times -- the awareness that quantitative analysis is necessarily limited. There have been efforts to find ways to include qualitative research in many fields -- for example in research involving people, documenting individual stories and adding them to the larger report.
That, in fact may be where the fly could hit the ointment in this case. Because I bet if you asked Bill Wyman, odds are he might not cop to any creepiness on his part at all -- I think we can leave implied, just now, any potential self-justifications on his part.
Like Siren, I was once in a relationship that qualifies as creepy under the formula -- but neither of us partaking in the relationship thought it at the time. And no, I've never been a lawyer, (although the judgement may still out on the psycho thing...)
It was marginally creepy, and I was much younger, and I'd never do it again, yadda yadda yadda. Allowing for the fact that lack of self awareness makes creepy tough to self-define, should it invariably be other-defined, by those external to the relationship? And if so, who should the others that do the defining be?
And what about those cases where you start out in a relationship where neither persons notes the creep factor, but one or both somehow come to be aware of this? What then? Just asking.
Coyote,
You ask: And what about those cases where you start out in a relationship where neither persons notes the creep factor, but one or both somehow come to be aware of this?
It seems to me that the Chair wrote this because people in relationships are either not aware or not sure of whether their relationship is creepy to others. The rest of us don't need a formula. We know if something creeps us out or not.
So, if you become aware that your relationship is creepy, what do you do?
I say it just factors in to the general mix.
For example, say you're 25 and married to a 37-year-old psychotic lawyer.
Should you get a divorce? For me, the psycho thing would be enough to call it quits. But if it didn't put you off through the courtship and engagement, why should it put you off after the wedding?
It seems to me for the same-sex relationships the general age difference factor still applies. I’d have to do more research on May-December romances in the respective communities to establish whether they fall under different algebraic formulas. Off hand, I’d say the 50-year-old male with a 25-year-old male seems a lot creepier than if it were two women. But then, as a het-male who wishes his life were more like a beer commercial, that whole “two chicks” thing probably biases my thinking.
With respect to other factors, sure, age-difference alone is not the only thing that can drive the creepiness of a relationship. But it is the most common, or easily determined, factor. Of course, there are other factors to consider as to whether a couple’s relationship is creepy. Such as:
- one is overtly dominant, while the other is submissive
- one is developmentally challenged, while the other isn’t
- one is living, the other isn’t
- … (you get the picture)
As to whether creepiness is additive once all other factors are considered, I have yet to find a unifying formula but I believe there are additive effects.
As for self-realization of being in a creepy relationship, chances are many of your friends saw it before you did. Love cannot only be blind, but deaf and dumb as well.
And I would add: couples who grocery shop together, clogging the aisles as they mutually dither over which brand of soy sauce is better.
You haven't left much room for additions to the creepy list but how about:
- a shared esoteric hobby (e.g. mushroom hunting) that they manage to turn every conversation towards
- they have become "associates" in a multi-level marketing scheme
It reminds of a great line in the movie Manhattan, where Woody Allen plays a 40-something man dating a 17-year-old (kind of prophetic, now that I think about it):
"She's 17. I'm 42 and she's 17. I'm older than her father, can you believe that? I'm dating a girl, wherein, I can beat up her father. "
Well, here's to non-conventional relationships. You crazy kids! If I can aspire for even half the mojo required at age fifty, I'll be looking to do the same.
Immortal Beloved, I just hope that your husband isn't a psychotic lawyer who drags you into multi-level marketing and mushroom foraging.
Or maybe since you're already in the Bill Wyman Zone, you should just go whole hog.
CHeck out attract women dating coach www.attractwomen.com.au
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